Was this the real ending?

Blue summer

Blue summer

Dedicated Member
Just been looking at the episode listing and realised that by Series 24, 5th January 2003, The Lair Of The Cat Creature would probably be around the realistic time of 30 years of the programme, as it began in January 1973.
For me personally, that was also around the time that it started to be the beginning of the end, as it were.
Alvin had just arrived and Entwistle was starting to appear more regularly and although i enjoyed most of those episodes, it did seem that Clegg and Truly were at the start of what would eventually become the beginning of them both appearing less and less, especially Clegg, so in my mind, the trio was now pretty much at the end of it's lifespan.
Looking back at the earlier episodes, with the trio including Foggy, Seymour and then Truly, all with the addition of Compo and Clegg, it seems that Clegg was the "cement" that kept the programme constant, one he started to appear less, then somehow the magic seemed to dissapear somewhat and that was when i realised that the programme was nearing the end, just my opinion but as Clegg used to say, "i offer it up, for what it's worth".

G ; )
 
i would tend to agree with you BlueprintZ, that was about the point of decline for me too, the magic years with the three leads was being signalled as coming to an end.
 
I'll make that a 3, I have said before that a view those later years has a different program altogether properly not has good has the earlier years but still quite funny. If you can view them has a separate entity then I think you enjoy them more because your not trying to compare them to the early ones. If that makes sense?
 
BluePrintz, I see what you are saying but I don't particularly agree (respectfully of course). However, I will have to watch Series 24 and on a little further to see any substantial declines in Clegg and Trully roles from Series 22 and 23.

If one is looking for the show centered around a "true trio" then I believe it is any series before Compo's passing. Series 21 was a transitional time. However, I believe the trio was tampered with quite a lot during Series 22 and 23. To me, a typical Series 22 and 23 episode is Wesley driving Clegg, and Truly (and maybe Billy) around and then they bump into the likes of Tom and Smiler, or Barry, or Howard. Then it often becomes a group function of the guys gathering together getting into trouble. One example is Beware of the Hot Dog, which just aired here yesterday.

Then, to me, Series 24 -27, continues in similar style, only with Entwistle replacing Wesley as the source of transportation (A Pick-up Of The Later Ming Dynasty, Follow the Bottle, etc.) I personally love the chemistry of all the characters; Truly, Clegg, Tom, Billy, Smiler, eventually Alvin (although he is my least favorite) and Wesley or Entwhistle. Of course, there are times I miss a true trio.

Now here is a question.... I know Sinclair And The Wormley Witches was Smiler's last episode. Was that also Billy's last episode? I don't remember that specific episode but to me, the end of Series 28 signified the end of Summer wine greatness. Afterwards, is when I personally recall Clegg and Truly's major decline. There were still a few classic moments in Series 29-31, so it wasn't a total loss.

We will just agree to disagree. For me, there are just too many great episodes from Series 24028.
 
To each their own Codfanglers, we are all different, thank heavens.
There are deffinately some episodes that i very much still enjoy watching but as i mentioned in my original post, it all seemed to get a bit "crowded" with all the various cast members being in the same situation.
What i meant, was that the original idea of three old fella's wreaking havoc around the town (and beyond), had started to fall apart at that point, with the new members such as Billy, Entwistle and Alvin being relied upon to carry the programme onwards, with less appearances of Clegg and Truly (for obvious reasons).

G ; )
 
BluprintZ said:
To each their own Codfanglers, we are all different, thank heavens.
There are deffinately some episodes that i very much still enjoy watching but as i mentioned in my original post, it all seemed to get a bit "crowded" with all the various cast members being in the same situation.
What i meant, was that the original idea of three old fella's wreaking havoc around the town (and beyond), had started to fall apart at that point, with the new members such as Billy, Entwistle and Alvin being relied upon to carry the programme onwards, with less appearances of Clegg and Truly (for obvious reasons).

G ; )
Click to expand...

One thing about me is I started watching Summer Wine around Series 25. So having a lot of the newer members is the norm for me and I am biased towards that era. Over the years, I have further developed an appreciation for the earliers years. One thing I will certainly agree with you on, is "wreaking havoc" around town and beyond is a great way to describe Summer Wine. My local station will soon air Lair of the Cat Creature. I haven't previously noticed any declines in the roles of Truly and Clegg until Series 29. However, I will look closely and see if I spot them less in the upcoming epsidoes.

We may disagree but it is certainly an interesting topic.

 
codfanglers said:
BluprintZ said:
To each their own Codfanglers, we are all different, thank heavens.
There are deffinately some episodes that i very much still enjoy watching but as i mentioned in my original post, it all seemed to get a bit "crowded" with all the various cast members being in the same situation.
What i meant, was that the original idea of three old fella's wreaking havoc around the town (and beyond), had started to fall apart at that point, with the new members such as Billy, Entwistle and Alvin being relied upon to carry the programme onwards, with less appearances of Clegg and Truly (for obvious reasons).

G ; )
Click to expand...


One thing about me is I started watching Summer Wine around Series 25. So having a lot of the newer members is the norm for me and I am biased towards that era. Over the years, I have further developed an appreciation for the earliers years. One thing I will certainly agree with you on, is "wreaking havoc" around town and beyond is a great way to describe Summer Wine. My local station will soon air Lair of the Cat Creature. I haven't previously noticed any declines in the roles of Truly and Clegg until Series 29. However, I will look closely and see if I spot them less in the upcoming epsidoes.

We may disagree but it is certainly an interesting topic.
Click to expand...

I have often enjoyed the couple of Episodes that had a lot less of the normal cast,Full Steam comes to mind,I agree that with some of the later episodes it did tend to get a lot busier and often we only saw little bits of the day to day cast with no real story line, it often seemed it needed to be an extended special to get away with so many cast,many doing different plots
 
codfanglers said:
BluePrintz, I see what you are saying but I don't particularly agree (respectfully of course). However, I will have to watch Series 24 and on a little further to see any substantial declines in Clegg and Trully roles from Series 22 and 23.

If one is looking for the show centered around a "true trio" then I believe it is any series before Compo's passing. Series 21 was a transitional time. However, I believe the trio was tampered with quite a lot during Series 22 and 23. To me, a typical Series 22 and 23 episode is Wesley driving Clegg, and Truly (and maybe Billy) around and then they bump into the likes of Tom and Smiler, or Barry, or Howard. Then it often becomes a group function of the guys gathering together getting into trouble. One example is Beware of the Hot Dog, which just aired here yesterday.

Then, to me, Series 24 -27, continues in similar style, only with Entwistle replacing Wesley as the source of transportation (A Pick-up Of The Later Ming Dynasty, Follow the Bottle, etc.) I personally love the chemistry of all the characters; Truly, Clegg, Tom, Billy, Smiler, eventually Alvin (although he is my least favorite) and Wesley or Entwhistle. Of course, there are times I miss a true trio.

Now here is a question.... I know Sinclair And The Wormley Witches was Smiler's last episode. Was that also Billy's last episode? I don't remember that specific episode but to me, the end of Series 28 signified the end of Summer wine greatness. Afterwards, is when I personally recall Clegg and Truly's major decline. There were still a few classic moments in Series 29-31, so it wasn't a total loss.

We will just agree to disagree. For me, there are just too many great episodes from Series 24028.
Click to expand...
Billy's swansong was the last episode of series 27 Plenty Of Room In The Back
 
BluprintZ said:
To each their own Codfanglers, we are all different, thank heavens.
There are deffinately some episodes that i very much still enjoy watching but as i mentioned in my original post, it all seemed to get a bit "crowded" with all the various cast members being in the same situation.
What i meant, was that the original idea of three old fella's wreaking havoc around the town (and beyond), had started to fall apart at that point, with the new members such as Billy, Entwistle and Alvin being relied upon to carry the programme onwards, with less appearances of Clegg and Truly (for obvious reasons).

G ; )
Click to expand...

I followed this discussion with interest. One thing I do not buy is this "real trio" concept. Nor considering Billy as a "new member". I thoroughly rated the trio of Clegg, Truly and Billy. In later episodes Alvin was a bit superfluous. I never felt any significant reduction in Clegg's contribution - and it is so right to say that he was the real glue which bonded the whole show - until Series #28 at which point Billy had also left.

To those who yearn for the "original idea of three old fella's wreaking havoc around the town (and beyond)", just have a thought for Roy Clarke who had to try to come up with new plot lines. How many of those can be managed with a severly limited cast number.
 
Big Unc I couldn't agree with you more, for Roy Clarke to keep coming up with new story lines with (What seemed like an ever expanding cast) must have been hard at times, in some episodes there was some reparation I've noticed that some lines were also "Recycled". I think the later years did need more cast or just having 3 main and a handfull of background cast the would have limited the scope of Roy's writing and would have become more repetitive.

I know by saying this that some members will disagree with me ( Hello Cod ;D ) But the early years were the best with Compo Foggy and Clegg, for me it did go down hill after that, that's why I viewed it has a differant show altogether, I didn't like Billy, Alvin, Smiler, Tom and especially Hobbo being introduced has part of the main players or them trying to replace any of the original cast. I have tried to watch the later ones but just don't enjoy them like the older ones and I found one or two rather silly.
 
Big Unc said:
I followed this discussion with interest. One thing I do not buy is this "real trio" concept. Nor considering Billy as a "new member". I thoroughly rated the trio of Clegg, Truly and Billy. In later episodes Alvin was a bit superfluous. I never felt any significant reduction in Clegg's contribution - and it is so right to say that he was the real glue which bonded the whole show - until Series #28 at which point Billy had also left.
Click to expand...


I definitely think of Billy as a new member of the gang (and perhaps trio). My comments about the lack of a "true trio" come from my recent viewing of Series 22 and 23. At many times it seemed like a quartet. There was often any combination of Clegg, Truly, Billy, Tom, and Wesley. At times Howard, Smiler, or Barry was taking part in the guys' activities. True, there were times when it was just Truly, Clegg, and Billy, which were usually at the beginning of the episodes. However, after the beginnings there were plenty of escapades with groupings of 4 or more. Of course, I am certainly not complaining, since it is my favorite era.


Susan said:
I know by saying this that some members will disagree with me ( Hello Cod ;D ) But the early years were the best with Compo Foggy and Clegg, for me it did go down hill after that, that's why I viewed it has a differant show altogether, I didn't like Billy, Alvin, Smiler, Tom and especially Hobbo being introduced has part of the main players or them trying to replace any of the original cast. I have tried to watch the later ones but just don't enjoy them like the older ones and I found one or two rather silly.
Click to expand...


Hello Susan, perhaps we disagree a lot but I often don't believe it. I will say this. I agree that there were so many great moments, especially from Foggy's first run. I recall the Flag and its Snag episodes, Scarborough episodes, Greenfingers, Going to Gordon's Wedding, and so much of season 8 as absolutely great moments. While it is not my absolute favorite era, it might come pretty close (especially with early Series 8).
 
I think that's what makes this group so great we all have a differant view on this great program I strongly believe that its because it lasted so long and had so many differant charactors that so many people can find something that they can like about it.

I think there are some things that we will always disagree on and some things we can find common ground on but the thing we all agree on is that this is and aways will be a great program ;D
 
BluprintZ said:
Just been looking at the episode listing and realised that by Series 24, 5th January 2003, The Lair Of The Cat Creature would probably be around the realistic time of 30 years of the programme, as it began in January 1973.
For me personally, that was also around the time that it started to be the beginning of the end, as it were.
Alvin had just arrived and Entwistle was starting to appear more regularly and although i enjoyed most of those episodes, it did seem that Clegg and Truly were at the start of what would eventually become the beginning of them both appearing less and less, especially Clegg, so in my mind, the trio was now pretty much at the end of it's lifespan.
Looking back at the earlier episodes, with the trio including Foggy, Seymour and then Truly, all with the addition of Compo and Clegg, it seems that Clegg was the "cement" that kept the programme constant, one he started to appear less, then somehow the magic seemed to dissapear somewhat and that was when i realised that the programme was nearing the end, just my opinion but as Clegg used to say, "i offer it up, for what it's worth".

G ; )
Click to expand...

I have been quoting a lot in this topic, however I recently viewed the start of Series 24 and thought I would revisit the original thought behind this thread. I don't notice a drastic reduction in Clegg and Truly's roles, but what I do see is more of a balancing of time between many of the "barmpots"; Billy, Tom, Barry, Entwhistle, etc. It probably did have something to do with Sallis and Thornton getting up there in years.

Sometimes the credits tell a story. When Bill Owen was living, the credits would start with the trio. Now, I can't recall every single episode, but at least in Series 24, it starts with Sallis and Thornton. Then its a whole list of the others in two different shots.
 
Instead of starting a new thread, I thought I would revisit this one as I finished viewing Season 24, missed the first few episodes of 25, and just caught "Happy Birthday Robin Hood".

It is a good episode and I recall previously enjoying season 25, but to me it might jusrt be the very start of the downhill slide. In this thread I previously mentioned how l like the chemistry between "all the Barmpots"; Clegg, Truly, Billy, Entwhistle, Tom, Smiler, and at times, Barry and Howard. Now there is the addition of Alvin. So here is a question for everyone.

Was the addition of Alvin really necessary since there were already so many others?

I don't want to turn this post into an attack on Alvin, but I don't think he contributed too much to Summer Wine. Overall, he is my least favorite character. I think he is "OK" and the main reason I feel he wasn't necessary isn't because of his character, but it became too crowded at that point. In the old forum I used to stick up for Tom. I always liked Tom. However, I am unsure of how much he adds to the show with so many cast members. Now I wonder, if I would have liked Tom less if he was introduced later. Also, perhaps I would have appreciated Alvin more if he was introduced earlier.

As for Blue Printz, and your original comment. Series 25 and Happy Birthday Robinhood is when it really hit me that Clegg was being used less. So I might agree with you overall but just see the beginning of the end in a different season.

Finally, one addition that I think is good is Ms. Davenport. Her personality contrast with the other ladies is great. I enjoyed see her trying to get the ladies on board for a book club.
 
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