Of Funerals and Fish Question

Emma

Emma

Dedicated Member
Does anyone know the dates on Edith Clegg's tombstone? I read them as 1900 - 1971, but another online forum says the dates are 1909 - 1971.
 
That remains a debate. As the camera pans, I see both 1900 and 1920. The 1920 is probably what was intended as it makes sense for the character ages. In a previous discussion here we concluded that it was a poor attempt to disguise an existing tombstone that said 1900-1971.
 
I have just rewatched that part of the episode and it reads 1909-1971. The nines aren't very well chiseled in but if you have the ability to pause it you can make out the tale of the nines.
 
Adrian Morris said:
I have just rewatched that part of the episode and it reads 1909-1971. The nines aren't very well chiseled in but if you have the ability to pause it you can make out the tale of the nines.
Click to expand...

I think the characters were supposed to be in their 50s when the show started but 1909 - 1971 would have made Edith 78 ( If my Maths is right )
 
Here is a screen cap that may help. It seems to show 1909 - 1971 which would make her 62 when she passed. The flowers cast a shadow on the headstone making it a little harder to read when she was born. The numbers can be made out when zoomed in. As Adrian mentioned the 9's and 0's are a bit difficult to read from the camera angle and the shadow does not help. You can see it is a shadow as you watch Norm swap out the flowers the shadow moves with them.
0 - Pilot - Of Funerals and Fish-snapshot.jpg

I know some have been to this cemetery and to where Bill and Peter are. Has anyone tried to locate this headstone?
 
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Sounds about right with my Maths. I still can't see Norman marrying a woman 10 years older than him.
 
Good thinking, Pearl. I figured Edie was a little older than Norm but did not think about by how much. I felt that the guys were not long out of school before WW2 started going by FotSW - late teens, early 20's or so.

Without going back to watch some episodes I looked up the Wiki for First of SW it says the series takes place between May and Sept of 1939. That Norm starts out some episodes by saying this is Norman Clegg's diary aged 18. That would have Norm born in 1921 and if Edie in 1909 making her 12 years older than him. Maybe they meant the marker to say 1919 making Edie only 3 years older. Which would make more sense.

Obviously Roy Clarke had no idea that this show would become as iconic as it has nor that people would look back on it to 'connect the dots' after time had passed. Inconsistencies are bound to come up. Of which we have fun discovering and discussing. :)
 
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RickAns said:
Good thinking, Pearl. I figured Edie was a little older than Norm but did not think about by how much. I felt that the guys were not long out of school before WW2 started going by FotSW - late teens, early 20's or so.

Without going back to watch some episodes I looked up the Wiki for First of SW it says the series takes place between May and Sept of 1939. That Norm starts out some episodes by saying this is Norman Clegg's diary aged 18. That would have Norm born in 1921 and if Edie in 1909 making her 12 years older than him. Maybe they meant the marker to say 1919 making Edie only 3 years older. Which would make more sense.

Obviously Roy Clarke had no idea that this show would become as iconic as it has nor that people would look back on it to 'connect the dots' after time had passed. Inconsistencies are bound to come up. Of which we have fun discovering and discussing. :)
Click to expand...
It's true, I think it's dissected way more than anyone would have imagined. But having said that my sons fiancee is 8 years older than him. It seems to not really matter that much now.
 
RickAns said:
View attachment 2258

I know some have been to this cemetery and to where Bill and Peter are. Has anyone tried to locate this headstone?
Click to expand...

Which church or chapel did they use for those outdoors scenes in the pilot? None of the churchyards tagged on the Summer Wine Map look steep enough to be the right one, and I don't recognize the side of the building where Clegg and the vicar sit on the bench to chat.
 
RickAns said:
Here is a screen cap that may help. It seems to show 1909 - 1971 which would make her 62 when she passed. The flowers cast a shadow on the headstone making it a little harder to read when she was born. The numbers can be made out when zoomed in. As Adrian mentioned the 9's and 0's are a bit difficult to read from the camera angle and the shadow does not help. You can see it is a shadow as you watch Norm swap out the flowers the shadow moves with them.
View attachment 2258

I know some have been to this cemetery and to where Bill and Peter are. Has anyone tried to locate this headstone?
Click to expand...

My thought was that the grave may have been a prop built for the episode.
 
Sarkus said:
That remains a debate. As the camera pans, I see both 1900 and 1920. The 1920 is probably what was intended as it makes sense for the character ages. In a previous discussion here we concluded that it was a poor attempt to disguise an existing tombstone that said 1900-1971.
Click to expand...

I find it hard to believe someone would disguise a real-life headstone, by leaving the existing date, and hiding the real name by covering with the name Edith Clegg.

Who would attempt that?

More likely a fake headstone, with the desired writing printed on it.

Since this was the pilot episode, and no other episodes were planned at this stage, it is possible Clegg's age was undecided or thought to be older at this stage.

Since the programme was planned to be about three old men, it's more likely the makers thought about the men being around retirement age.

Being in your 50s and redundant doesn't have the same ring of old age as being over 60 and of retirement age.
 
By the time they made the pilot they had moved the character ages to in their 50s (pretty close to the cast in that regard) so I don't think there was any intent that we were supposed to think Peter Sallis was playing someone that much older. At least that is what Andrew Vine's book says.

As for the headstone, people do have them made in advance. Perhaps they found one that had a birthdate only carved. The effects department tried to make it look different but as the camera panned it didn't work. But its a quick shot and at the time TVs were small so they figured it was good enough.

Nobody officially has ever explained it. Not sure who today would even remember, unless Roy Clarke knows something.
 
Just had a look in a 1976 BBC book 'Last of the Summer Wine Scripts', by Roy Clarke, which concentrates on the first seven episodes.

The headstone is described as reading Edith Clegg 1909-1971.
 
I have tried enhancing this photo. The first pic shows clearly the tails on the nines but I think the second pic, which is a negative, shows the dates a bit stronger as 1909 - 1971. The tail on the 9 in 1971 seems incomplete.
 

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I think this is a great subject as it helps frame future references in the series. It's good we can delve into it here because some series' are not so forgiving.

Star Trek has every button-pushing scene analyzed to death. In an SNL skit William Shatner is so flabbergasted by fans Q&A to settle arguments that he finally tells convention attendees to "get a life!" : )

For some reason I can't find a quality version of it on youtube but this is close. : )
 
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