Was Norman Clegg right??

[dick]

Was Norman Clegg right when he said " people are staying at school longer to get much less education" .?? The young lady who tweeted " If Barraco Barner is our president why is he talking to Russia?" has apparently got 17 GCSE's. Two of them at A level . To paraphrase Cleggy again "How's that for pieces of paper??"" She claims she was tired at the time of the Tweet and thought she was being amusing. Makes you wonder don't it????????

 

[Philosopher Clegg]

Makes you wonder about what? That here's a young women who doesn't care much about politics that she would make a silly mistake? That she might have been having a bit of a joke? Just because she has some decent qualifications doesn't mean she would necessarily know much about President Obama or even how to spell his name. I have sympathy for her, as she seems to be a decent individual, working, trying to better herself, who made a bit of a gaff about a subject that perhaps she knows little about.

If we look deep enough we can find lots of examples of people having an opinion about something that they probably have little or no knowledge of. A person's age and academic qualifications, or lack of them, doesn't come into it. It says a lot about the world that we are encouraged to have a go at her for this while ignoring all the dumb things that people really do believe in, most of which they have probably never educated themselves about, but feel that they can have an opinion on. The internet is full of these type of people. Just look at a subject like global warming.

Apparently she has received vicious tweets and death threats over it. Shows how pathetic some people are.

 

[dick]

I was asking a question in a general manner Philosopher not having a pop at her! It was aimed in a general manner to be thought provoking, not nasty .I wanted other peoples views about the subject. You've obviously read the same article I did. I speak from a position of being severely bullied when I was younger and can understand some of what is happening to her. If I want to bully other people I'll join Twitter or Facebook and be a cyber bully, not pose questions on this forum! As for the question of qualifications or not , I had them but they did not do me much good I finished up working in factories all my working life. I am now 70 years old and feel that looking back and wishing I'd done differently is a total waste of my time. To reiterate , I was not having a go just wanting others opinions .After all I did pose the question "Was Cleggy right??"

 

[Pearl]

My son in law has qualifications coming out his ears but because he they don't have the right title he has had to go and do more exams. He can do his job well he can do his bosses job well. Its a waste of his time and our money.

Is it better to have a person able to DO their job or have a person qualified to do their job?

I have a certificate upstairs saying that I have a level 1 pass in fractions,decimals and percentages, I have no idea why or how I managed this as I my head explodes if I see any.

There is too much emphasis put on bits of paper and exams, people need practical experience not bits of paper.

To anyone thinking Dick would bully or make fun of someone else because of what they say or do does not know him very well.

 

[Philosopher Clegg]

I was asking a question in a general manner Philosopher not having a pop at her! It was aimed in a general manner to be thought provoking, not nasty .I wanted other peoples views about the subject. You've obviously read the same article I did. I speak from a position of being severely bullied when I was younger and can understand some of what is happening to her. If I want to bully other people I'll join Twitter or Facebook and be a cyber bully, not pose questions on this forum! As for the question of qualifications or not , I had them but they did not do me much good I finished up working in factories all my working life. I am now 70 years old and feel that looking back and wishing I'd done differently is a total waste of my time. To reiterate , I was not having a go just wanting others opinions .After all I did pose the question "Was Cleggy right??"

Sorry. I wasn't having a go at you, more the fact that her gaffe was in some way linked to the notion that as she seemed to be reasonably well educated her somewhat silly tweet hinted at what a waste of education, or that her education hadn't helped her much. I suppose what I'm suggesting is that regardless of how well we may be educated, we are still capable of saying something poorly thought out, without considering the consequences. I don't think that is limited to young people either. We do like to have opinions about things, I suppose in part because democracy and relative freedom gives us that, but I've often wondered what worth is an opinion if we are not knowledgeable about the subject matter. It would seem when it comes to politics she had an opinion, but lacked knowledge and probably a real interest in the subject matter. Saying something without thinking is her only real "crime" here.

I left school back in the 70's with a few, mostly low grade CSE's. No one encouraged me to get educated, I didn't even know whether I could go to University or not, it wasn't expected of me. I was expected to leave school at 16 and get a job, a trade if I was lucky. I did go to a polytechnic 10-15 years later having spent years in and out of work doing dead end jobs. I did reasonably well, but like you I wouldn't say that getting the extra qualifications helped. If anything it was a hindrance as employers wanted to know why I didn't get my degree like everyone else, straight from school. By the way, I largely did a degree out of enjoyment of the subject and for the experience, not specifically to get a job although I hoped that it would show some initiative having left school with nothing!

 

[dick]

Thanks for your explanation, it do's seem these days that we all have to be so careful of what we say and do because "the thought police " are out in force waiting to snare you! That young lady did not deserve death threats and the like .Although if there are a lot of people like her ,out of touch with politics , the next few governments are going to be a revelation.

 

[Philosopher Clegg]

My son in law has qualifications coming out his ears but because he they don't have the right title he has had to go and do more exams. He can do his job well he can do his bosses job well. Its a waste of his time and our money.

Is it better to have a person able to DO their job or have a person qualified to do their job?

I have a certificate upstairs saying that I have a level 1 pass in fractions,decimals and percentages, I have no idea why or how I managed this as I my head explodes if I see any.

There is too much emphasis put on bits of paper and exams, people need practical experience not bits of paper.

To anyone thinking Dick would bully or make fun of someone else because of what they say or do does not know him very well.

At no stage do I say that anyone is bullying or making fun. my post does say "we are encouraged to have a go at her", maybe I should have been more specific as to where that encouragement comes from, certain media, press, etc. I was being critical of the link being made between a young woman's academic qualifications and the notion that it hasn't helped her as she made a comment perceived as dumb on Twitter, which suggests that education doesn't help people. My main criticism is aimed at those who create the storm in a teacup out of something irrelevant.

Is it better to have a person able to DO their job or have a person qualified to do their job?

I suppose it depends what it is. I wouldn't want a doctor with no qualifications operating on me. Bus driver? Pilot? Engineer, Loads of jobs where specific qualifications to do it are surely desirable? Ideally you would have someone who is both qualified and able to do the job. On the other hand, some jobs now seem to require a qualification purely for the sake of it. There are many jobs where arguably less emphasis on bits of paper wouldn't be missed. For that you can probably thank the politicians from the 1980's onwards that expanded education as an alternative to mass unemployment.

 

[dick]

Talking bits of paper, I explained I worked in factories all my working life, I used to have occasion to drive the fork lift truck. No one minded ,I was good and careful. When I got made redundant I applied to drive a forklift for another company and was told no because I had no "licence". The job centre would not put me on the course to get one because I was outside the age bracket ???

 

[onyx(John)]

I would echo Pearl's remarks regarding Dick. I think I know him well enough to say he is not the kind that would bully or intentionally offend anyone.
It's difficult to believe that anyone of any age or level of education would not have seen the US president's name written down somewhere, in a newspaper, magazine, on TV or teletext etc.
It was quite a gaff but it should not result in her being the subject of bullying and ridicule.
Lots of young people are a bit dippy but is does not mean they are stupid.
Here is a pic of the young lady in question. Personally I would forgive her anything, rolling my tongue back in as I speak..;D

 

[Philosopher Clegg]

Thanks for your explanation, it do's seem these days that we all have to be so careful of what we say and do because "the thought police " are out in force waiting to snare you! That young lady did not deserve death threats and the like .Although if there are a lot of people like her ,out of touch with politics , the next few governments are going to be a revelation.

Then it's up to politicians to get people back in touch. Around 35-40% of people no longer vote in the UK. Given the first past the post voting system we have in the UK most Governments are elected on around 25% of the total vote. So, more people don't vote today than actually vote for the Government! I suspect in part because they don't really offer us much choice and often the impression is that real power lies elsewhere, i.e. the City, Moneymen, Banks, etc.

Talking bits of paper, I explained I worked in factories all my working life, I used to have occasion to drive the fork lift truck. No one minded ,I was good and careful. When I got made redundant I applied to drive a forklift for another company and was told no because I had no "licence". The job centre would not put me on the course to get one because I was outside the age bracket ???

Yes, the old age limit thing. I think slowly that is now changing, but it's been around for a long time. Apprenticeships, etc, too old. I've been there, experienced that. No reason why age should ever have been a limit, other than archaic laws and practices.

I would echo Pearl's remarks regarding Dick. I think I know him well enough to say he is not the kind that would bully or intentionally offend anyone.
It's difficult that anyone of any age or level of education would not have seen the US president's name written down somewhere, in a newspaper, magazine, on TV or teletext etc.
It was quite a gaff but it should not result in her being the subject of bullying and ridicule.
Lots of young people are a bit dippy but is does not mean the are stupid.
Here is a pic of the young lady in question. Personally I would forgive her anything, rolling my tongue back in as we speak..;D

You can see why some of the press jumped on it. It could be her Andy Warhol moment,15 minutes anyway. The world needs more beauticians not politicians is quite catchy.

Again, I wasn't accusing Dick of bullying, nor did I think that his first post intended to offend. My venom was aimed at those, twitter trolls and media types attacking her for something that is basically trivial and at worst an error of youthful ill-informed judgement.

 

[Beth]

The poor girl. I am surprised she spelled our president's name as bad as she did but sometimes when I am texting, I find that my spell correction has a mind of its own and I get strange responses from my texts.

This statement is not in regards to this young lady's response. But I feel personally, that our teachers are not given the respect or pay they should. Our government seems to cut back first on our education budget before anything else. Sorry, but it should be one of the last. I will get off my soapbox now.

(John get your tongue back in!)

 

[Philosopher Clegg]

I was thinking last night about the names of world leaders that perhaps we should know, but suspect that most people wouldn't. I couldn't name most of the leaders of countries of the EU. Who's the leader of China? Japan? I had to look them up, even if I knew I doubt I'd be able to spell their names without checking. I think most people in the West wouldn't know without looking them up.

Important really, because China is the next great superpower, second biggest economy in the world. A country that basically helped keep the US afloat during the financial crisis, being one of the biggest buyers of US bonds. It is the largest foreign U.S. creditor with around $1.3 trillion of US treasury debt. So, pretty important? A communist country with a more capitalist economy than most in the West that helps produce all that consumer stuff we buy. They have a cheap workforce in factories often owned by Western companies attracted by the low start up costs. We can't compete with them even if we wanted to unless the British people are prepared to see their living standards and pay drop dramatically. The Chinese work cheap, even the educated ones by comparison with the West, but in time that will change.

Then there's Japan, still pretty important to the world economy and a friend to the West. They still provide us with a lot of our consumer goods, but find it more difficult with China on its doorstep.

Xi Jinping is the current Chinese leader.

Shinzō Abe is the current Japanese prime Minister.

I'm guessing, but I suspect most people wouldn't know or even wonder why they should know about these two powerful people.

 

[Pearl]

You stay on your soap box Beth, its true education should be overhauled the subjects should have more to do with real life. What good is a GCSE in media studies if you have no idea if you have a president or Prime Minister leading your country?

There are so many school leavers that have barely a grasp on English yet spend hours and hours learning French. They should be made proficient in a core subject, one that will ensure they get a good job or at the very least ensure they can post a sensible Tweet or status before they learn another language.

I know 2 girls both intelligent one excels in everything she puts her mind to.
The other is by means stupid but needs more time spent on core subjects like Maths and English but spends most of her spare time catching up on French!? Where's the sense in that? Unless she moves to France!

Just have to say 2 things. I got down on my knees when I saw her picture and thanked the Universe that she wasn't blonde and John do what Beth said, put your tongue back in before you fall over it.

 

[Philosopher Clegg]

The poor girl. I am surprised she spelled our president's name as bad as she did but sometimes when I am texting, I find that my spell correction has a mind of its own and I get strange responses from my texts.

This statement is not in regards to this young lady's response. But I feel personally, that our teachers are not given the respect or pay they should. Our government seems to cut back first on our education budget before anything else. Sorry, but it should be one of the last. I will get off my soapbox now.

(John get your tongue back in!)

Maybe she spelled his name wrong deliberately as a joke, but then got embarrassed and couldn't admit to it for fear of coming across as insulting. She'd already received a lot of Twitter abuse and threats by then which may well have spooked her so she blames it on the spellcheck. Who knows, but she clearly knew the name of Obama, as she wouldn't have spelt it the way she did had she never heard of him.

Ignorance, lack of knowledge and poor judgement comes at all levels of society.

"Sarah Palin believed that the Queen rather than the prime minister was responsible for the decision to keep British forces in Iraq, according to research done for a new film chronicling her brief political rise."

"Her confusion emerged during a coaching session with Steve Schmidt, a top McCain adviser, who asked Mrs Palin what she would do if Britain began to waver in its commitment to the Iraq war.

In one of the many rambling responses that steadily eroded her credibility during the campaign, Mrs Palin reportedly replied that she would "continue to have an open dialogue" with the Queen.

A horrified Mr Schmidt informed her that that the prime minister, then Gordon Brown, would be responsible for the decision."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...-was-in-charge-of-British-forces-in-Iraq.html

She was once a US Vice President candidate.

 

[Adanor]

Here in the US, they have federal regulations in place that require that students from K-12 be given standardized tests and so the teachers spend most of their class time TEACHING TO THE TEST and the rest of the time teaching their students how to effectively take these tests. So there is less and less opportunity for students to actually learn as they are required to jump through more and more hoops. So sad.

 

[brendalovescompo]

Anador , it is pathetic our education system isn't it. I remember my kids reviewing 2 weeks before the test. Then in the beginning of the year they would recap for about 3 weeks so the kids can be refreshed before going on. My daughter was one of those "left behind" and the school system fought against me when I would try to get her help within the school system. I better stop before this turns into a rant on the school system. :unhapppy::'mad::unhapppy: