Redundant to Retired

codfanglers

codfanglers

Dedicated Member
Hello Folks,

I know it has been a while since you heard from me but professional life and family life has kept me quite tied up. I have not gotten to watch much Summer Wine lately but thankfully due to our Memorial Day on Monday and a rare 1/2 work day for me yesterday, I got to catch Who's That Dancing With Nora Then and Changing Face of Rural Blamire.

The Blamire years are not my favoriote era, but I have a real appreciation for the show's origins. In past disucssions here I learned that Summer Wine started as more than just a bunch of old guys running around, but it was a refelction of the times with the out of work military vet and someone whose line of work (Lino Salesman) declined.

When I do watch the Blamire episodes now I do so with a greater understanding. I was listening to Blamire talk about redundancy and starting a new career and it got me thinking. I don't remember Foggy talking about these things. He had his money making plans such as that in "Odd Dog Men" but these seemed more like little things on the side and not actual career paths. I know the show changed with the intro of Foggy, but can anyone determine when the status of the trio would have gone from "Redundant to Retired"?

I guess it is hard to do because Foggy left for an Egg Painting business and even Seymour was looking for head master work at times. So perhaps the offical retired era started with Return of the Warrior because Seymour left for a new position and when Foggy returned, I believe he was fully retired.

Thoughts anyone?
 
I think they just eased into it, I could be wrong and I'm sure I'll whipped into place if I am but I don't think there was a specific episode that you could nail it down to. Like many things on the show it just happened one week.

By the way, welcome back :D
 
I don't know when the word 'retired' was first mentioned by the trio.

However, when Foggy left the army he would have been around 55, which does happen to fit with the ages of the characters that we later on could estimate.

I believe 55 is retirement age in many army careers.

I suppose as the show progressed it was clear the show was about being free, so being redundant was never really going to be an issue anymore.

Somehow redundancy isn't a particularly funny topic, especially as the show began to lose it's grittiness from the early days.

When Wesley was first introduced it was revealed he had retired - though we mustn't forget he was just a new character here and not developed.
 
From what I understand the redundancy was meant to be a reflection of the times - in the early 1970s there were quite a few men of that age laid off due to the economy. So that is what Clegg was going through, as was Blamire. In one episode Blamire mentions living at his boarding house for 12 years, so he'd been out of the army quite a few years at that point.

As for Foggy, when he is introduced they specifically say he'd been working at the base in a "civillian capacity" since retirement from the army, but its not ever made clear for how long. By that time Clegg seems to be pretty much comfortable in retirment - no interest in really going back to work - so I'd say by the time Foggy was introduced the trio would basically be considered retired men, not redundant men. As noted above, Foggy never really makes a serious effort to go back to work, he's just on the look out for potential get rich schemes.

It is interesting that Ivy never actually retired, though realistically she must have had some unseen help to keep the cafe going all those years. Especially given all the times she's off at coffee mornings or other activities.
 
"It is interesting that Ivy never actually retired, though realistically she must have had some unseen help to keep the cafe going all those years. Especially given all the times she's off at coffee mornings or other activities."

In regard to that, its been my observation that Crusher was never actually declared has gone. I've always thought that he was still there working behind the scenes for his Auntie Ivy rather in the same vain as Glenda was married to Berry and was mentioned regularly by her but Mike Grady was not actually in the series for 6 years.
 
I think everyone has nailed it. All are of retirement age, Foggy retired from Army, Clegg, the lino salesman. Compo, getting his comp check.
 
Pearl said:
"It is interesting that Ivy never actually retired, though realistically she must have had some unseen help to keep the cafe going all those years. Especially given all the times she's off at coffee mornings or other activities."

In regard to that, its been my observation that Crusher was never actually declared has gone. I've always thought that he was still there working behind the scenes for his Auntie Ivy rather in the same vain as Glenda was married to Berry and was mentioned regularly by her but Mike Grady was not actually in the series for 6 years.
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That is a possibility, I suppose. I always have thought it odd that they introduced Crusher's girlfriend a full series after his last appearance, so maybe that is how we should look at it.
 
Sarkus said:
As for Foggy, when he is introduced they specifically say he'd been working at the base in a "civillian capacity" since retirement from the army, but its not ever made clear for how long. By that time Clegg seems to be pretty much comfortable in retirment - no interest in really going back to work - so I'd say by the time Foggy was introduced the trio would basically be considered retired men, not redundant men. As noted above, Foggy never really makes a serious effort to go back to work, he's just on the look out for potential get rich schemes.
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They would not have been retired, at least not officially until at least the second coming of Foggy. I suppose it depends upon what you think their age was when the series first started. I assumed they were in the early to mid 50's. The official retirement age, unless you are an individual of private wealth or have a decent private pension was 65.

Compo never really worked, was clearly on the dole or "social" as they liked to chastise him with. He never had two pennies to rub together. Having been made redundant by the Co-op Clegg might have got a pay-off, even maybe a small pension, but I doubt whether it would be much as a former lino salesman. He would have been claiming benefits like Compo. Blamire I assumed had been former middle management, I think in one episode he mentions having worked for the Water Board (at least I think it was the Water Board, I'm sure it was one of the former nationalized industries). He too was clearly unemployed, but entrepreneurial. He would have been on the same benefits as Compo and Clegg. Foggy would have got a pension and possible redundancy pay-off when he left the Army, but whether it would be enough to sustain him is debatable. He may well have been on benefits depending on what income he had coming in and savings.

I suppose the point is that if you are on unemployment or supplementary benefits you are not classed by the state as "retired". You are suppose to be available for work even if your chances of getting it are zero. They would have been moved on to the state pension at 65. They would not have been retired for at least the first 10-15 years of the series.

There is a point in time in a later series when Clegg stops saying that he was a redundant lino salesman to saying that he was a retired lino salesman. Can't pinpoint when it was though.
 
Philosopher Clegg said:
They would not have been retired, at least not officially until at least the second coming of Foggy. I suppose it depends upon what you think their age was when the series first started. I assumed they were in the early to mid 50's. The official retirement age, unless you are an individual of private wealth or have a decent private pension was 65.

Compo never really worked, was clearly on the dole or "social" as they liked to chastise him with. He never had two pennies to rub together. Having been made redundant by the Co-op Clegg might have got a pay-off, even maybe a small pension, but I doubt whether it would be much as a former lino salesman. He would have been claiming benefits like Compo. Blamire I assumed had been former middle management, I think in one episode he mentions having worked for the Water Board (at least I think it was the Water Board, I'm sure it was one of the former nationalized industries). He too was clearly unemployed, but entrepreneurial. He would have been on the same benefits as Compo and Clegg. Foggy would have got a pension and possible redundancy pay-off when he left the Army, but whether it would be enough to sustain him is debatable. He may well have been on benefits depending on what income he had coming in and savings.

I suppose the point is that if you are on unemployment or supplementary benefits you are not classed by the state as "retired". You are suppose to be available for work even if your chances of getting it are zero. They would have been moved on to the state pension at 65. They would not have been retired for at least the first 10-15 years of the series.

There is a point in time in a later series when Clegg stops saying that he was a redundant lino salesman to saying that he was a retired lino salesman. Can't pinpoint when it was though.
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How it works in real life doesn't mean thats how it works in Summerwine Land! ;-) But you are right in terms of their ages not matching up. There are references to Blamire having a pension and some other money, and presumably Clegg had something (maybe insurance from his wife's death?), so in practical terms neither had to find a job to get by. In terms of the show, once Foggy arrived there weren't any episodes after that where anyone showed an interest in getting a job beyond Foggy occasionally trying to find something for Compo since he clearly had no income beyond state benefits.
 
Pearl said:
"It is interesting that Ivy never actually retired, though realistically she must have had some unseen help to keep the cafe going all those years. Especially given all the times she's off at coffee mornings or other activities."
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As for Ivy, I never thought of her as retiring. Many people, often small shop and small business owners, keep going forever because that is what they want to do. I always thought of Ivy as someone that ran their own shop however she wanted and served whatever she wanted- never worried about making the best profits, but just was content doing as she pleased. There are a lot of elderly people that once they stop working, they completely shut down.
 
Forces' pensions - let's try and set in the context of the nineteen-seventies when Blamire and Foggy first came on the scene as ex-servicemen. As is so often the case, there have been developments over the years.

The standard term of enlistment was, and might well still be, twenty two years. On retiring after twenty two years a servicemen qualified for an immediate but small pension based on his rank at retirement. If he, or she, opted to defer the pension until standard UK retirement age of 65, it would be significantly enhanced by the time that age was reached. Service of less than 22 years qualified for a pension but not an immediate pension.

Note that as the age of joining the army was typically around 18 it was not unusual to come out at around 40. At that point it was usual to find another job though for some in the nineteen seventies that might be difficult.

Some reference has been made to the age of 55. That is the typical (and I think maximum) retirement age for commissioned officers and is not relevant to non-commissioned ranks who serve for an agreed term.

As an army branch civil servant which it is possible Foggy would have become after leaving the army, he would have accrued a civil service pension but generally that would not have started to become payable until he reached sixty.

Generally, all three would at age 65 transitioned from one form of benefit, unemployment pay (the dole in those days) to another, the state pension.
 
Thanks Unc. I was going on a partly remembered fact. So I'm pleased you set it straight . :)
 
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