Series 30 & 31

Ch74

Ch74

Active Member
Been watching them a lot recently and the writing as usual was superb but it's only looking at them now I appreciate what a great actor Russ Abbot is. .His facial expressions were superb and with Ace telling lies all the time ( team, my team) and more of the policemen I really enjoyed the last 2 series. What do others think?
 
I liked it that the Cooper and Walsh had more screen time, I really enjoyed those two but I wasn't a fan of Hobbo so those two were bitter sweet for me.
 
Ch74 said:
Been watching them a lot recently and the writing as usual was superb but it's only looking at them now I appreciate what a great actor Russ Abbot is. .His facial expressions were superb and with Ace telling lies all the time ( team, my team) and more of the policemen I really enjoyed the last 2 series. What do others think?
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Excellent writing as I would expect from Roy Clarke. Russ Abbot brilliant at playing himself - I don't call that acting. For me, too much a one-man band to be true LOTSW. So, I view those last two series as The Russ Abbott show written by Roy Clarke.
 
I like the series a lot favourite Nobody messes with Tony the Throat but agree with Big Unc its Roy Clarke writing the Russ Abbot Show . As I have just said on your welcome thread there is definitely a large part of his Basildon Bond character in the portrayal . I would counter the criticism levelled at him with the fact that the main characters from the previous series Clegg and Truly were clearly old and not well enough to fulfil those lead roles and sadly it needed the introduction of a strong lead character to carry the show forward ,Russ Abbot performed that role reasonably well.
 
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IMO, with Clegg and Truly in only very minor parts, Russ Abbot saved the show - as for me Entwistle and Alvin didn't have much to offer.
 
I grew into these two series. The first couple of episodes I thought were trying too hard to make Hobbo a Foggy substitute, however once they turned down the volume on that aspect I began to like his character.
I think it was helpful that Russ is not well known down here in Oz, so when I watched him I didn't have any "baggage" to bring to the show.

Having seen the two series several times now, I think they stand up well against earlier ones. There are two aspects I am not fond of, one is probably just personal taste but the other is more of "what were they thinking?"
Number 1 is the enlarging of Howard and Marina, particularly in the last series which is pretty well one episode split into many parts in respect to H & M.

While I am a fan of those two, I saw/see them as basically a one joke wonder who pop up in obscure places each episode. I am well aware that they (and Pearl) played a bigger part than that but basically their story every episode consisted of
(a) how to escape Pearl (b) finding somewhere to go, with Howard being nervous and Marina being frustrated (c) The "locating" of the two by the others in unexpected places (d) The final confrontation with Pearl.

I thought the last series concentrated too much on Howard and his story wasn't really strong enough to support that. I freely admit this is just a matter of personal taste and others will have vastly different opinions.

The second aspect I absolutely HATE is the dodgy CGI used, mainly on Howard! His Russian dancing for example is excruciating for me to watch as it is done so badly. Not from an acting perspective, but from the technical vision aspect. It is a bit
"Thunderbird-ish" you can almost see the strings and seat they used to support him. Now I am also well aware that some of the special effects in previous series are not exactly brilliant and were done on the cheap. For some reason they don't bring out the same "hate" in me. I mean just look at the scene where Compo in the tractor tyre "flies" into the pond. You actually CAN see the wires and also that it isn't Bill in the tyre AND it floats in the air for far too long, but strangely I accept that as a reasonable attempt to get an effect on the cheap.

Compare that with Howard on a trampoline bouncing up to "woo" Pearl back at her bedroom window, another example of something done so badly it detracts from the whole show. The effects, I believe, could have been done much better to lessen the glaringly obvious CGI attempt or they could have been left out altogether. The scenes really didn't add to the show and in my humble opinion were so bad they should have been left on the cutting room floor.

I will now run and hide from all the daggers about to be thrown at me!:13:

Cheers

Brian
 
I've said it before Brian, if we analyse the shows too much they will lose their magic. Sure the effects are a bit dodgy but taken in light of a light entertainment show they are ok. We could pick fault with no's 1 to 295 but what would it gain us?? I like them as they are , warts and all!:14:
 
You're right Dick, as I freely admit. There are some quite dodgy special effects throughout the whole history of the show but for some reason these ones really grate! Howard doing tricks on a pushbike, Russian dancing etc., for some reason these particular
"dodgy" effects really draw attention to themselves in a way that most of the others don't.(well to me anyway) Every time I see them I wince.

I don't think I am over analyzing anything, lets face it the shows do not stand up to any real, independent, in-depth analysis and they are not meant to. They are pure entertainment, meant to be enjoyed as such and I CERTAINLY cannot fault them for that. As I said in another thread, I think the show was a lifesaver (literally!) for me, and continues to be one. I love all the quirks, foibles and silliness. Some episodes are not as good as others, this is obvious in the case of a show that went on for 30+ years but it is quite amusing to note that episodes I quite like are not liked by others here, and Vice Versa!

The world would be a very boring place if we all liked the same thing! :pc: :me:
 
Personally I would prefer to ignore all of the obvious flaws and just enjoy what Roy Clarke is trying to portray in the writing , seeing the strings on the Thunderbird puppets did not in my opinion detract from the ground breaking technology purported by Gerry and Sylvia Anderson . One of the greatest tragedies in recent years was when ITV broadcast a series Breaking the Magician's code and the mystique purveyed by Magicians was shattered I for one flatly refused to watch them because whilst I know they are tricks I don't want to know how they are achieved I much prefer to still marvel at the technique .
 
Ahhhhh..... the Hobbo years. Every few years these come into discussion.

As I wrote this before, here is how I felt about them when they came on at the end of the rotations.

1rst time - absolutely hated them!

2nd time - I tolerated them

3rd time - It was "OK"

4th time - I liked them

5th time - I liked them a lot.

However, I don't think I will ever "love" them. Like the viewing of the actual era, Hobbo grew on me and I have never seen Russ Abbott before.


While Summer Wine has traditionally been centered around the men, perhaps the women save the show in the last two years. For me, Jane Freeman was a pillar of strength during these years. Not only did her character stay great, but she helped keep the ties to the glory years of the show. I thought Ivy worked great with Hobbo. Then, I believe Misses Davenport, the hopeless romantic who pretty much clashed with eveyone in a harmless and comical way, added a lot of quality to the show.

I will agree with WSTOL. For me the biggest disappointment of this era was Entwhistle. I thought he was such a strong character in his first few years. Sadly, he seemd to add literally nothing to the show during this time. I can't figure out if it was because he was also older in age or that his character just didn't suit a major role. Perhaps it was a combination of the two. He just tagged along and made silly facial expressions.

I am mixed on Brian's opinion about too much Howard and Marina. I generally agree that it is too much of the same thing over and over again, but perhaps during the final years it was one of the best things for Bell and Clarke to work with. The Howard, Marina, and Pearl storyline was never one of my favorite aspects of the show but they did provide some great scenes and humor over the years.

There are some really good episodes. My favorite is Good Night Sweet Ferret. One of my favorite scenes during this era was when Howard was wired in "Howard Crossing the Atlantic". Yes, it is very silly, but always cracks me up.
 
If it hadnt been cancelled do you think it would still be going now? How much longer could it have lasted? I saw the actor who played Toby died in 2011 so that would have taken him out & left Morton with nothing to do. Obviously Clegg isn't well and Truly passed away in 2013. Could it have survived much longer?
 
I believe there was some mileage in further series but sadly not many. As you say Frank Thornton, Trevor Bannister passed away , not sure that Brian Murphy , Bert Kwouk, Jane Freeman , Robert Fyfe, Jean Alexander , Josephine Tewsome would be up to it given their age . June Whitfield seems to be able to go on for ever , Juliette Kaplan , Sarah Thomas , Mike Grady , Tom Owen , Russ Abbot maybe Christopher Beeny would probably be able to fulfil their roles sure Roy Clarke had some scripts left in him but clearly new characters would be needed .

I am not sure there is a plethora of British Comic talent who would fit the show . The actors who were once the doyens of the alternative comedy scene Griff Rhys Jones, Rowan Atkinson, Stephen Fry , Alexei Sayle , Ade Edmundson , Dawn French , Jennifer Saunders , Hugh Laurie are all active, no longer considered alternative and of an age that would fit in with the show but would you really want them in it , I think not .

NB they could have changed tack with Morton and allowed Glenda/Barry to finally find the right woman for him
 
Cgi effects ?????

Greetings from liverpool !!!!
Now......our wonderful show has had 31 series.
During this period,the strength of the show has been the unique writing talent of mr. Roy clarke.
Roy brings together all the aspects of human nature,and human responses in a way that no other writer could,or has ever done.
Our show is based on gentle humour,and the special relationships each character has,with each other.
Remember......some of our characters have been "friends" for over 30 years.
At no time,whilst viewing the show have i thought "that special effect was not very good !!!!!!"
why would i ?????
If you want to view "good cgi",i can recommend the new jurassic park film.
Leave that kind of thing to "the experts",and enjoy our special show for what it is.
Best wishes to all !!!!!!
Keith.
 
I've just looked and was surprised Josephine Tewsome is 84. She never looked that old. I thought late 60s at most
 
Ch74 said:
I've just looked and was surprised Josephine Tewsome is 84. She never looked that old. I thought late 60s at most
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I agree. Isn't KUA about 22 years old? That meant she would have been in her early 60's during that time. I always figured she was in her 40's!
 
Ch74 said:
If it hadnt been cancelled do you think it would still be going now? How much longer could it have lasted? I saw the actor who played Toby died in 2011 so that would have taken him out & left Morton with nothing to do. Obviously Clegg isn't well and Truly passed away in 2013. Could it have survived much longer?
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This message is in response to Ch74's as well as Captain Clutterbuck's immediate response.

Summer Wine continuing after Season 31 would have been a lot of what if's. I personally would have let go of the whole Morton and the Captain story line just like Clarke let go of Ms. Avery and Babs a while back. That storyline wasn't to the quality of the rest of the show. I certainly don't mean to disrespect the late Terevor Bannister and Morton, but as for characters and storylines, they just weren't as funny. Morton was good however in his first run with Summer Wine chasing after Tom.

Here are the what ifs.....

You have to look for the younger cast during that time. For one, I was always a Barry fan. I believe he could have been an effective part of the new trio. In a previous thread someone mentioned it wouldn't work because he was married, unlike the rest of the barmpots. That's true. So either Summer Wine would have changed a bit or a spin off could have been made with the remaining cast.

Hobbo could have stayed, but they still would have had to look for younger folk. I think Keith Clifford was slightly younger than those who were in their mid 80's at the time (I could be wrong). So Keith Clifford would have had to been enticed to come back as Billy. That would have been a hugely popular move.

Bobby Ball made a few appearances and he seemed right for the show and he would have been a great regular character.

Throughout my years on forums, I have probably been Tom's biggest supporter. I always liked him as the shady drifter and Smiler's partner. I believe I am in the minority here as liking him when he first joined Summer Wine after his father's passing. Personally, I think returning Morton as the debt collector to chase after the shady Tom once again would have been good.

These are a lot of "what ifs", but I think it would have been good. I always felt that the returning trio should have been Barry, Billy, and Bobby Ball with Tom as an extra. I never even thought of Hobbo returning. Would he have been better as one of the trio or an extra? I am not sure.
 
Surprisingly Russ Abbot is the youngest at 67 , Mike Grady is 69, Bobby Ball is 71 but Keith Clifford is 77 . In terms of the actresses Sarah Thomas is 63 , Jean Ferguson is 70 ,Juliette Kaplan is 76 [if they'd carried on immediately after series 31 ended then you can knock 5 years of those numbers] . In the end age is just a number [Sir Norman Wisdom was still tumbling well into his eighties] presumably scripts would be tailored to take account of the remaining casts capabilities . As you say its all if's and but's, a move to expanding First of the Summer Wine series may have been the answer [ which someone else already mentioned in a thread] which would have allowed them to cast far younger actors in the roles and used more of the characters from the various series who would have been around at the time of its inception, for example Gavin Hinchcliffe who we know was at school with Clegg / Truly / Billy from the episode he appears in .
 
I agree with Cod except when it comes to Barry, Hobbo, Entwistle and Tom............. Well ok maybe I don't agree with Cod :D

I've watched the Hobbo series several times now waiting for it to grow on me has it as for others but I'm sorry its just not happening for me. I wasn't a fan of the Morton/Captain dynamic either, they changed Morton too much from his debt collecting persona. I liked Pearl, Marina and Howard but have to admit it did get a bit wearing towards the end but I think that was purely because those three could still get around easily and I liked Miss Davenport too.

Entwistle was great I liked him until he was turned into a wingman for Hobbo, it was a shame they changed so many of the characters but I think that was down to age, which comes to us all.
 
codfanglers said:
This message is in response to Ch74's as well as Captain Clutterbuck's immediate response.

Summer Wine continuing after Season 31 would have been a lot of what if's. I personally would have let go of the whole Morton and the Captain story line just like Clarke let go of Ms. Avery and Babs a while back. That storyline wasn't to the quality of the rest of the show. I certainly don't mean to disrespect the late Terevor Bannister and Morton, but as for characters and storylines, they just weren't as funny. Morton was good however in his first run with Summer Wine chasing after Tom.

Here are the what ifs.....

You have to look for the younger cast during that time. For one, I was always a Barry fan. I believe he could have been an effective part of the new trio. In a previous thread someone mentioned it wouldn't work because he was married, unlike the rest of the barmpots. That's true. So either Summer Wine would have changed a bit or a spin off could have been made with the remaining cast.

Hobbo could have stayed, but they still would have had to look for younger folk. I think Keith Clifford was slightly younger than those who were in their mid 80's at the time (I could be wrong). So Keith Clifford would have had to been enticed to come back as Billy. That would have been a hugely popular move.

Bobby Ball made a few appearances and he seemed right for the show and he would have been a great regular character.

Throughout my years on forums, I have probably been Tom's biggest supporter. I always liked him as the shady drifter and Smiler's partner. I believe I am in the minority here as liking him when he first joined Summer Wine after his father's passing. Personally, I think returning Morton as the debt collector to chase after the shady Tom once again would have been good.

These are a lot of "what ifs", but I think it would have been good. I always felt that the returning trio should have been Barry, Billy, and Bobby Ball with Tom as an extra. I never even thought of Hobbo returning. Would he have been better as one of the trio or an extra? I am not sure.
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Good post, thanks. ...Why did Keith Clifford leave? I found it strange he quit such an iconic and popular show cant have been much better out there?
 
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